Best Personnel for Defensive Line Positions | FBCP S11E07

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:41] Daniel Chamberlain Welcome back, coaches, this is the football coaching podcast. I am the co-host Daniel Chamberlain. I am here with Joe Daniel, as always.

[00:00:49] Joe Daniel How’s it going, coach?

[00:00:50] Daniel Chamberlain Very, very well. It’s been a great week, spring break

[00:00:54] Daniel Chamberlain Yes.

[00:00:55] Joe Daniel Wow. OK

[00:00:56] Daniel Chamberlain So when this comes out, it will be not my spring break and probably yours.

[00:01:00] Daniel Chamberlain Well, I mean, you’re always right.

[00:01:01] Joe Daniel Well, I don’t have a spring break, but ours is usually around. It’s either the and I assume this year, because of the late date, it’ll be the week before Easter. It’s almost always the weekend before or after Easter. Wow. But like I said, I don’t have that.

[00:01:14] Daniel Chamberlain Gotcha. Yeah. Well, coaches, tonight we are joined by coach Dave Dugan. He’s joining us from the far northeast, where he just talked about needing to figure out what those Northeast falls are like

[00:01:28] Dave Dugan Hi guys. Yeah, it’s it’s it’s it’s been kind of cold up here. So we had our February break a couple of weeks ago and then we got a couple of weeks and then we roll into our April break and then our kids are done end of May.

[00:01:40] Daniel Chamberlain So it’s kind of I mean, that’s I need those kind of breaks. And he’d like, let’s have a February, March and April. I don’t think a teacher can get behind

[00:01:49] Joe Daniel We don’t get a February break because we don’t know how to handle snow. So it’s just built and that will get where we’re far enough north and Virginia that we get snow, but we don’t know what to do with it. So we just shut the school down for a few days. That’s our January February break.

[00:02:03] Daniel Chamberlain Exactly. Yeah. Snow days. Well, coach man, I’m glad you come back on with us. I know you’ve been on before. Some people may not know who you are, so if you don’t mind, just give us a quick introduction.

[00:02:13] Dave Dugan Yeah. So I am a defensive coordinator, associate head coach at Bishop Fenwick High School and a city 20 miles north of Boston in Peabody. I’ve been there pretty much my whole coaching career, and it’s been a great mix for me. It’s been

great mix for my family and I’ve been able to coach with a lot of good guys and coach some great kids over the years. So it’s it’s been a fun ride.

[00:02:35] Daniel Chamberlain It’s awesome. Joe raves about how successful you are off the air. He probably won’t put it on the air as much, but

[00:02:41] Dave Dugan well, that’s I don’t really think that has a lot to do with us. As coaches, we’ve been really blessed with some great kids that that buy into our program and and make it what it is. So I’ve I say this at the banquet every year, you know, coaches lose games, plays, win games. So you know, when you get some good players, you’re going to win a lot of games. So we’ve been very blessed and successful with that.

[00:03:04] Daniel Chamberlain That’s an awesome quote.

[00:03:06] Joe Daniel I do think it’s it’s worth pointing out that the you wouldn’t I wouldn’t have expected this when I started, you know, because I grew up in Georgia and we all know that football is better in the South. That’s what we’ve been taught our entire lives. Or so that’s what I’ve been taught my whole life. So when I started doing this, and especially when we started doing the game film analysis and I started getting film from from several of the schools up in that up in that area and up in your in your conference and your league. The the level of coaching is incredible. The not that there’s not good football everywhere, but the level of coaching gives everyone great players, but the level of coaching and the the discipline of the players and the execution of the players, both sides of the ball and multiple teams. I’ve seen probably just about every team they’re on film the execution. The coaching is phenomenal in your area. So like all, those coaches should be commended for it.

[00:03:59] Dave Dugan Yeah. You know, we got a good league and a lot of good coaches. It’s it’s never an easy. It’s never an easy game in our league. So it’s and you got to be creative because everyone runs something different. And you know, it’s it’s always a challenge, you know, and you said you started in Georgia, a couple of Massachusetts boys playing on that Georgia team this year. So out of out of Everett High School, so and so it was. It’s it’s nice to see them get some recognition down there.

[00:04:27] Joe Daniel So, you know, we appreciate their contributions. Daniel especially initiates their contributions to a two day varsity football to the higher levels. Uh, yeah, we play in the SCC.

[00:04:42] Daniel Chamberlain We’ll be there in three years, three years tops. Well, coach, I appreciate you came on and kind of talked about the the good players being what carries a good football team makes the success because tonight we’re we’re talking personnel. We’re actually going to talk Defensive Line personnel, which is really going to take it away from coaching and X’s and O’s and more. What are you looking for in these players? We’re going to talk about odd and even front. We’re going to kind of break it down by interior and outside linemen. So into your guys and your end after we pay the bills, I assume that’s a good place to do it here.

[00:05:11] Joe Daniel Yeah. So, you know, we we obviously teach both, you know, both odd and even fronts. And when I’m going to talk about with our defensive linemen is that we can do it with anybody. That’s one of the reasons that I wanted to have Dave on this podcast because, you know, just from looking at his team last year doing it with anybody, not anybody. But, you know, we’re not we’re not all used to coaching the three 300 pound six foot behemoth at the 3-tech position that. Maybe the dream spot and JDFB Coaching Systems, you know, I work with a lot of coaches who are probably like you, coaches that are listening who say, you know what we don’t have besides, we don’t have the we’re undersized and I know there’s always one or two teams that got it. There’s a lot of teams that don’t. That’s kind of where we specialize is with the teams that don’t, but we make it work. And whether it’s odd front, even front, 33 stack, 3-4, 4-3 or the 4-2-5 defense working with the guys that you have and getting the best out of them both on the defensive line and throughout the rest of your defense with the coach simple philosophy you get access for $1 by going to join.JoeDanielFootball.com that gets you access to everything, including the defenses and the Pistol power offense system. Again, join.JoeDanielFootball.com.

[00:06:24] Daniel Chamberlain Excellent. So we’re going to start on the odd front side of the ball. I’d say the ball that sounds ridiculous with hard front. And I want to start inside linemen and kind of work our way out and then we’ll just regurgitate this with the, you know, with even front. I’ve never taught an odd front, so I’m really going to bow out on this and just learn from the Masters in the room because I don’t have much to put in here. So coach it. If you get us, go and just we kind of want to talk about what is that? What does that lineman look like? How are you playing it? That that inside,

[00:06:53] Joe Daniel if you’re just joining us here, right? Primarily the nose.

[00:06:56] Dave Dugan Yeah, yeah. So when when we started, when I first took over as defensive coordinator, we were a 3-tech team. You know, we were blessed. We had a couple for our program, a couple of bigger kids to play knows. But I don’t think you necessarily need that big kid. If you play a three stack and and you play it well, you probably slant and your guys 60 70 percent of the time. Anyway, so I’ve I’ve gone away from trying to get the big kids. I’ve found it’s been way more effective for us and for our program to have the quicker kids that you can slant and you can do things with, you know, the year we want to stay title in 2013, our nose guard was the one. The kid that started was five, six, one hundred and sixty five pounds and we just slanted him almost every play in our two teams where they weren’t much bigger than him, you know? And and of course, we had some really good linebackers behind them, too. But but those three were so fast they just gave offensive line offensive lineman fits in. And the more I do this and the older I get, it’s the idea of speed is really more effective sometimes than, you know, being 300 pounds, because sometimes those 300 pounds guys, they can’t get out of the way. And you know, the quick guys can get there and cause damage before you even know what’s happening offensively. So, you know, traditionally in a 3-4 that, yeah, you want that big, you know, 300 pound nose guard. But if you don’t have it, you don’t need it. You know, if if you if you build your defense properly with those three guys, you can slap the crap out of them. And and that’ll be that’ll be enough. You know, it’s just be up to you to make sure you slant no one to slant when not to slant and and when you’re not going to slant. Have an answer for where if those guys get overpowered once in a while. So I think that’s something you have to live with till when you play with the smaller guys, sometimes you’re going to get overpowered and you’re going to give up plays. So you just hope that relentless pressure all the time of a game kind of kind of from that defensive line, you know, is does the trick? When we won our state title that that three man front, we never really got out of it. We went to a four man front once or twice that whole game because they were in passing mode. And those three guys cause so much damage that that quarterback they had like five or six sacks that often spilling couldn’t block them. So it was it made our job a little bit easier from calling plays that it went from. We would slant left or right till second quarter. They were just picking up stuff right away. And I’m like, Hey, if you have the freedom, go do it. You know you slant which way you figure it out and and it can be. It can be devastating. Once you build that trust with your kids to that you trust them when they come to you and say, Hey, listen, I can, I can do this and you give them that confidence to do it. When it works for them, it’s it’s a big win all around.

[00:09:43] Joe Daniel So I think that, you know, I’ll save my own personal experience for when we get to a little bit later and then we start talking about two gapping. But I’ve had the big guy. And in fact, the first year that we ran the thirty, we ran a three five three was my first year as defensive coordinator. We had the big guy. He was recruited by. He was recruited as a as an offensive lineman by some FCS schools and end up not going. But you know, you had that. He had that size. He had the strength. He could control a guy. He could beat the center, which is great. And a couple of times that I’ve run, run a run as a change up front. Even since then, I’ve used the bigger guy, but I’m like you where I’ve found, you know, I learned that the speed of that knows unless you’ve got a truly dominant nose. And I think from the three three and to an extent in the 3-4, but from the three three, I’ve always thought best players. The middle knows, Mike, free safety. We kind of talked about, you know, I’m not 100 percent sold on that anymore, and I think we talked about in a previous episode because I think there’s maybe, maybe a benefit in today’s game to putting him in that strong side, especially a field type of, you know, strong end position. If you’ve got a really dominant guy because so many teams are doing, you know, all tackle power outside zone, those kinds of things. But I agree with you, I found that the quickness and not only the quickness, but I think that the thing that really makes this work, they are going to get caught some time. They are going to get, you know, just hooked and moved in. But there’s quicker guys with the that ability. But also, I want I want strong lower body and I want pad level if I’ve got that guy. So it’s not just quickness, but it’s it’s that it is that wrestler type of kid that’s playing with that load, you know, the ability to change just exactly what you teach a wrestler to do change levels. You know, work in work in a low position. He’s got strong legs. He can work through there. He can. If he gets double teamed, he’s just just crawl. You know, we’re not probably doing as much of the when it’s when, especially when it’s a smaller guy. We’re not spending as much time on the punch and reading as we might spend in other cases with that nose. But what I’ve really liked is if I’ve if I’ve got, this is probably where I’ve used the quicker guy the most is if I’m a bass odd front. I’ve got one guy who’s pretty good. I’ve got got one guy who’s dominant. He’s just playing those right. He’s just stay out there, dude. This is high school football. I don’t have Division One players very often. So you’re going to be on the field for a long time. You’re going to get tired. Sorry. But if I got a guy who’s good, you know, maybe he’s maybe he’s a D3 caliber player. He’s good. He’s above average, but he’s not dominant. And I can get him 40 snaps and bring another kid in for 15 snaps who just changes the whole complexion of things and maybe on offense, like, he’s your running back or he’s your back, or he’s got some, some other role, but he’s not in your starting defense and this is a place to just get him out there and use him. I think that change up in the personnel kind of like we talked about with the H-back. If you don’t have the guy who’s just the man working, both get a guy who’s pretty good now. You got to get smaller guy who can just go out there and go to. That’s great. But I see working them both at that knows is a great way to to work that position too.

[00:13:06] Daniel Chamberlain Yeah, we’ll use this to kind of my little anecdotal thing here to segway into your wanting to get. My older brother played five six years before me, I don’t know, and he was five foot seven five foot eight. He’d never even got looked at by college because he was so short, but he wrecked on Friday night at the nose guard because he could to get. Because you talked about pad level, he was already low. You know, people wanted their best player center handle on the ball and they couldn’t. They could not get under him. He was also the strongest kid on the team and he was running with me like we’d run sprints and he could outrun me. So he was just that if he’d been taller, he’s probably like D1 caliber, but he no one even looked at him. But it was exactly what you guys are saying. Like I can, I can bring it every single play. He didn’t play on offense, so he had the dexterity there to keep going. And it was that that pad level. And yeah, that so that we to get a lot back then. And that’s what made him so good. He could just snap off on the center, never knew where he was going and he had the straight him out mountain reading. So I know, Joe, you talked to talk about your personal experience more there of the two gap stuff.

[00:14:08] Joe Daniel Yeah, that’s that’s what I played in high school too. I was that I was I was five foot eight, 165 pounds. I was a pretty average below average linebacker, probably. And because of some actually some injuries and some tragedy and things that went on with our team between basically in the summer before my senior year, they needed somebody to play, knows the two ends. We were 3-4 system. The two ends were division one one played at a FCS. One play was a long snapper at an ACC school. So like they were 300 pounds, they were. They had it I to gap, and all that I knew was I was on a two point stance and I was low to the ground. Not to points out so far as a four point stance, and I looked at the feet of the center and whichever way the center stepped, I ran across the space. I don’t know, you know, I think about this now and I’m like, Well, I would want to go back side because he’s down blocking a lot. But you were quick enough to get across his space and like, take out the knees of the puller before he got out sometimes and just just cause piles. And there will be games where I had zero tackles and there will be games where I had 10 tackles and every single game I graded out at 90. Our coaches graded everything out. This is Georgia. We had 36 coaches on staff at six, eight or whatever, and I graded out at ninety five percent every game because I think my job was just to make a pot. And I taught other kids to do that since then, and I worked with coaches are going to do that since then. And with the right kid, that can really be like a. Certainly seeing kids do it a lot better than me, I’ve seen I’ve seen we had a state champion wrestler on a team that used to play a hundred thirty five pounds and he just destroyed basically doing that just to gap in reading and going where he went. So yeah, I think that you can really now obviously, if you’ve got the big guy who can, whether you want to read the beat or read the hips in to gap in a traditional to gap manner that can work too. But you can use a quick player and you can play a two gap nose with with the backers reading off of it, and it can be really effective.

[00:16:13] Dave Dugan Yeah, and that’s what that’s what we found to we’ve. We’ve always taught our guys when we ran a thirty six or eight feet. It was just easier for them because they were always in that three point stance. And you know, if you got the big guy, the big guy can take up space. But what you find is, and I’ve seen it more and more over the last 15 years that you know your center. When I was in high school always seemed to be one of your better linemen, but now it’s almost like they’re put in centers there that aren’t your best linemen anymore. They’re more you’re really more put guards and tackles get all the focus. So if you can find a quick nose guard that can really cause what in a lot of schemes might be the worst lineman, you can really do some damage with that. And, you know, have them read the feet and just go. And then, you know, if you’re in a 33 stack teacher, Mike linebacker, whichever way than those guys go and you’re just going opposite and filling that opposite gap there too. So it can be it can be devastating. But I’m not much of an odd front. We don’t do a lot of it. We did it my first year as a defensive coordinator because we played so many spread teams and we were having some troubles slowing down the spread teams, and we found the 33 stack was a really nice answer for us. And then, of course, we kind of morphed back to the four three because our league, we saw everything. So we had to have some sort of answer week to week and we had to have something that we could build out of and do every week. But you know, the 33 stack as as as a defense, if you want to get three quick interior linemen that can read feet and quick and go, it can. It can cause problems. I know one where a spread team, the hardest thing our offensive linemen have to do is pick up a 33 stack because you never know what guys are coming from. And on a high school level where you only get so much time a week to learn how to zone block and how to try to pick up blitzes. And if you got a 33 stack team that’s constantly moving for an offensive line that’s hard on a high school level to pick up, play in and play out and even to try to zone block off of it, it’s hard to. So yes,

[00:18:17] Daniel Chamberlain I have been there on a very long Friday night watching our offense do nothing as a middle linebacker screened through and hit the quarterback and running back at the same time multiple multiple times in a game. So I’m just going to ask question here just from my own information and maybe those who are listening, I don’t know as well at what point are you? What level of big guy does it have to be before you replace him with a smaller guy that can be quick because you’ve kind of all or both, you’ve kind of said the same thing. It quick, strong speed, agility. So at what point is the big guy? Not really what you’re looking for here?

[00:18:48] Joe Daniel I think an odd front if you can’t move? I mean, that’s the line. It’s not strength or anything, really. There may be a role for him, but if you can’t move,

[00:18:58] Daniel Chamberlain you know, put him on offense. They have a lineman.

[00:19:02] Dave Dugan Yeah, I’m in the same boat, too. If he can’t move, you know, and in, you know, because I think with the three of us, we’ve talked about this before, high school football’s become so much more athletic. I like I don’t even think I could play in this modern day of football because kids are so much more athletic than I ever was when I was in high school that the game is faster, it’s quicker. It’s it’s it’s up tempo more. And if that big guy can’t move, you know, he is kind of relegated to maybe being an inside guard in a spread system or, you know, a center or a tackle in a in a wing T system where all you have to do is teach them how to block down or something like that, depending on what you do.

[00:19:40] Joe Daniel So it’s really hard when you play spread teams, if because you know, we look at film and we look at this, you know this, this guy did a good job and this guy did a good job. But there’s always it’s high school football. It doesn’t matter how good you are, somebody’s getting blocked. Somebody is having a breakdown, somebody spitting it wrong, getting a bad key. Read whatever. And when we see teams where these defensive linemen are coming down the line of scrimmage or screaming down the field, and they’re making a tackle at the numbers for a one yard gain, you know, because because you have the force player was there and he forced the guy to cut back. But you know, the Mike linebacker or the will linebacker or somebody he got picked up, the free safety got lost or whatever. And it’s like, if that if somebody is running and gets there and makes that play, that really makes your defense better. It makes it so that you have 11 guys playing the entire. Yield, instead of the old way where we might have had five guys playing the box and six guys available for the rest of the field, yeah.

[00:20:47] Daniel Chamberlain Athleticism is definitely I agree with you, said Coach Dugan. It’s everything has gotten more athletic. Bigger, faster, stronger is real. Yes. All right. So let’s move out a step. So let’s go to the ends in the odd front. Strong week or filled and boundary, however you’re calling yours and just kind of the same thing. What do these guys look like and what traits we’re kind of looking for here?

[00:21:08] Dave Dugan Well, for the boundary guy for me and 3 stack was our bigger guy. If we had one, you know, like, you know, I coach at a small school, so we don’t always have the luxury of taking the big guy or or the the stronger guy. We would take the three best defensive linemen, but in a true 3 stack, I would like my bigger guy on the boundary because he doesn’t have to move as much. I don’t know. And and then you want your more athletic defensive tackle to be at the field side if that’s how you play it. A lot of guys don’t do that because they don’t want those guys having to worry about flip flopping every, every play. They’ll just put their three guys and this is where you play and just let them play from that. But if you really want to play that field in boundary, you want a tackle that can kind of to gap and play, move laterally down the line of scrimmage more than that other guy because he doesn’t have to go that far. So we would do that would put a bigger guy on the boundary and our more athletic tackle to the field in the 3 stack.

[00:22:10] Joe Daniel Yeah I like that. And I, you know, like I said, I always thought the nose would be the best. That was my my always. My go to was the nose, be the best player. We played a team who a really good three stack team here, probably eight nine years ago, and they had a kid that was going to North Carolina. And he like, if I had to use a defensive end, if I had to describe like his his frame, it would be like the best high school tight end you could ever think of, right? And he could run. I mean, he’s like tall but not not like, you know, six five foot tall and just built. And they always played him at the strong end or the field, and probably more so. And watching that, it was like, Wow, this guy is, I mean, in the first thing I thought with the personnel was, we’ll just go week, because why do you put the guy knows, because you can’t run away from it? Yeah, but if he’s it knows and I can do any sort of a decent job in our offense. And a lot of offenses, if I can do any sort of a decent job of a down block, I’m hitting your best player in the side of the hip, every play and then running to gaps outside of it. So when you put that player that best defensive lineman in your 3 stack, in your 3-4, you put him at the and I think they would move them around a lot, but you put him at the strong side end where he’s so many teams when you run off tackle now and they want to run to the field, obviously. I think that’s really where I think that today that if I was going to base the way that we kick our when when we go into an odd front, you know, as a as a we’re usually based for two and then kicking into a 3-4 lot, sometimes a three three, but a lot of times the 3-4. And it’s just based on the personnel who goes where, but it’s usually the 3-tech. The best guy bumps out and becomes the strong side end a lot of times. That’s because our nose is more suited to be a quicker guy and just shoot one way or the other. You know, he can play in one technique complaining as to why when he goes head up and he’s slanting, he’s quick and he can do that. So I like obviously, I think if you have a guy who was a little slower, you know, being on that weak side now for us, that would usually end up being a guy who’s faster. But I want that. I wanted the best guy at the strong end, I think, is where I’m looking. A lot of the a lot of this is all the same, right? We want quick guys, guys who can move, guys who can run. What if I got a dominant guy? I’m thinking he’s going on the strong side,

[00:24:44] Daniel Chamberlain so strong side. So he’s got the tight end. I mean, because if it’s zone, he’s probably got that that zone block to two feet. And if you play a tight front, an odd tight front, do you? Does that change anybody’s personnel here? Is anybody making a change just based off angles or anything if you’re inside?

[00:25:02] Dave Dugan The only way we would, we would do some different if we saw something on film that we thought we could take advantage of. But I, you know, Joe has made me a big believer over the years. I will tout my own home. I am an OG of of the JoeDanielFootball.com website, but Joe’s, you know, idea of, you know, play simple. The more you have your guys just playing in one spot and getting used to that, the more comfortable they are and the better off that they’re going to be. And even if they, you know, they might be a little bit out of position, they’re comfortable that they’re not saying. And about oh, I got to move quickly and then, you know, the offense of catches you in a bad spot, so it would we would only move something if it was, you know, they came out in a that we had practiced against all week. And when we said, OK, they’re going to come out next, we’re going to do that.

[00:25:54] Joe Daniel Yeah, I think there could be some match up. I’m not a big, tight front, you know, a huge fan of the tight front, but there could be some match up situations, like you said, something we saw in film a, you know, a tendency or something where I just want to get that guy there. I think it would have to be a kid. And you know, there’s there’s kids who can handle being moved around because they’re they’re at a different level from everybody else and they can handle and they’re not always the biggest guy. We had a player this year. It’s a linebacker. It’s a four year starter at linebacker. He’s not the biggest guy, you know, as a D3 kid, he’s a really good D3 kid. But I can guarantee you that we could have put him anywhere on the field because he’s played 40 football games, you know, and he can he he understands football. He’s at a level where we played him. We moved him over to offense and he never played offense. We played him. We talked about with our tight ends up, so we moved him to tight end. I think they had always just got them as a backup guard because like, you know, that’s what you do with that kid he can’t catch. So you just make him a backup guard in a spread system like you talked about. He played tight end for us when we moved to H-back, and I’ll move him to like fullback. And he was every single time the kid was like, coach. I don’t know what to do. I’m like, You’ll be fine. And then like, at least at the ball, it turns out the kid’s just a football player, right? So if we were going to do something special, it’s got to be that kind of kid. You know, it’s got to be the kid that, you know, he can put his hand down here. He can go pick back up, he can do that and he’s going to be fine. There’s just got to be the right kid if we’re going to do anything special.

[00:27:31] Daniel Chamberlain Absolutely. So that brings us into the even front and we’ll move back inside and work our way out. So inside linemen,

[00:27:39] Joe Daniel now we can both be comfortable now we can both talk about, like our actual defense.

[00:27:44] Daniel Chamberlain Yeah, right. So Coach Dugan, who do you what are you looking for on that inside guy like, you know? Same questions as before traits or skills? Or what are you looking for there?

[00:27:55] Dave Dugan Well, you know, I think when you run the four three, like we’ve run it, we’ve we’ve always tried to find a three technique and a one technique tackle. And the three technique for us was always your bigger. We never were a two gap team, but he could be the two gap or if you wanted him to be that. And our one technique was always a smaller, quicker kid. You know, we had some success with this. In 2014, we had a we had a backup quarterback that he wasn’t going to play a lot of quarterback, but he was the type of kid that had run through a wall. And so we just got the idea of like, why don’t we put him at the one technique tackle and just let him go tackle kids in the backfield? And it worked out great for him. And so we’ve adopted that principle a lot over the years that, you know, that one technique tackle. We’re not going to teach him to do a whole heck of a lot because a lot of times it could be a running back. It could be a defensive back that’s just kind of out of place. It’s not really a true lineman-type kid, and we’re just going to teach him, get to the backfield, tackle the first thing you see, and it’s more complex than that. Know it’s not like he’s just running around like a chicken with his head cut off back there. But you know, it’s it’s getting that element of speed on the field that’s hard for a guard to block it because we’ll put him on, you know, the outside shoulder, the center a lot. So now the has got to worry about this kid. He’s got to worry about snapping the ball and this kid and now that God’s got to worry about him. So that’s how we’ve kind of built our four three, you know? But but this year we had one kid that was a wrestler who was a running back. He he had transferred into us when he was a sophomore, and he kind of struggled in there as a running back. He struggled as a linebacker. And this summer, we were like, Let’s just try to d tackle and see what happens. And it was a perfect home for him because he had a months, two defensive tackles. Where are our two best players besides some kids in the back end of our defense this year? I mean, he had, I think, eighty eight tackles as a defensive tackle and the kid that won our MVP defensive MVP had 98 tackles as the three technique. But we really didn’t have a three technique or a one technique. Joe saw both of them on film this year. They were just so quick. They were just and they just had a nose for the ball. And it was one of those positions where if you have that kid, just let them go, let them go. And you know, he’s going to make mistakes and you know, they could be susceptible to trap. But a lot of offensive coordinators, they didn’t want to run trap because they were terrified of this kid blowing up a play. And you know, it was successful for us because we had some linebackers this year who were just young and hadn’t played a lot. So those two defensive tackles, really. Covered up a lot of mistakes for us this year, and that’s kind of we had the two quick kids, one kid, we had our defensive tackle, our three technique was our slot receiver. And we played the playoff game and the opposing coach went up to him because I’ve never seen a kid catch three touchdowns as a slot receiver and then getting the three technique position and make 10 tackles and a sack. And he was just a unique kid. It’s, you know, like people are like, Wow, it’s like, it’s nothing we do. He was just a unique kid that had a nose for the ball and was quick. So, you know, we’ve been blessed with a lot of kids like that.

[00:31:09] Daniel Chamberlain So making things work at a small school, you’re also extremely good at it. I struggled this year and I ended up what I did in my inside guys was it was like, that’s where my offensive linemen rolled through. So we just ran them in pairs. We’d have like three pairs of guys that we could take because they were always on offense, right? And and I had some more athletic guys that could play my ends. And so that’s what I did. Looking back, I’m not so sure I agree with that anymore. I mean, maybe one of those lessons learned for me going forward in my coaching career is you don’t always have to use the big guy, like, give them guys and let them go. Breathe, let them get on oxygen, you know, play the next snap on offense because we had some smaller guys that probably could have, you know, flourish down there. But none of it was a lack of want to try that or lack of scared to get ran out of town or whatever. But putting a little dude on the defensive, like you said, that coach is like, What is this? How do you catch three teddies and then come and have all these tackles? So I’m not in my first couple of years. I’d be scared to try it. Move forward now. I think it’s definitely a lesson learned. I let some athletes get in there and play football because I was kind of committed to that big men play defensive line, you know, that kind of old school train of thought, I guess.

[00:32:17] Joe Daniel You know, we used we’ve got the big bodies, you know, fortunately for us, I it’s it’s been a while since we’ve not had a big body because we’ve not had at least one kid who was a pretty legitimate 3-tech for the level of football that we were playing and finding that guy. It’s probably been. Maybe 2015 was the last time that I remember just we just didn’t have that. We had a guy who was going to be that guy. But he, you know, he was a sophomore and he was he needed another year or two to to grow into to grow up the full package. But I do think that you can. You mentioned having some guys rotating. I think Defensive Line is probably the one place on the maybe receiver, but in the entire, especially defensively, that’s the one place where you can rotate and you do want to rotate and you do want to get some different guys. And I do think that again, unless you’ve got the guys that are just there, just get it and they can just go. I think there’s definite value, you know, maybe not the 3-tech because I want to have a dude 3-tech if I can. But at the one tech, especially just like we talked about before with the nose, getting a quick guy, getting a big guy, getting, you know, get my running back out there for for 10 snaps and a game because, you know, he’s carrying the ball a lot, but he wants to play defense too, and he’s just not. A lot of times is a guy who’s not great in space. You know, if he was great in space, you know, the hips and everything. Reading, you know, he’d be an outside linebacker, a free safety or something. But he’s just, like you said, put his hand in the dirt and let him go and leave him alone. And then maybe I got a big guy that I can put in there when I know, you know, they want to run wedge and I can just put that guy in there and be like, All right, go ahead, try it. So I do think there’s some, some merit to personnel. It a little bit, and I’m sure there are some games where, you know, big guy, they’re going to drop back and pass 60 times like, big guy. You have no point. You have no purpose. I got to get a rush. But then there’s other times where they’re going to run right at us, and maybe I don’t want the little guy out there. I do. I do think the little bit, how many times we put the little guy out there and practice just to see, like, you know, on scout team or something, you just throw the throw that guy down there. Can we have a spot on the offense needs like jumps in at defensive end or something like that? We haven’t talked about outside, but you throw him out there and he goes out and he just wrecks shop and you’re like, Oh my gosh, this kid’s the answer. And then the next day he goes to the Defensive Line coach who tries to teach him stuff and he gets progressively worse for the rest of the season at that position. Like, how many times does that happen?

[00:34:57] Daniel Chamberlain I literally tried that last year, and the kid quit football. He was like, Nah, I’m done turning my helmet before. I think I don’t know if he made it a single game. I was like, I watched him. Same thing throwing him down their defense. Vince will transition there shortly, but three minute practice because I just needed a body and he is just wearing my offensive line out, making every tackle in the backfield. And I was like, Never mind. That’s your that’s your spot now, right? And then he didn’t want to be there. So I guess he quit for that reason. But yeah, I get you. And I don’t know that I would do anything with the Defensive Line coach because for the same reason, I quit trying to teach him stuff. He mentally figured it out. Let him go, play

[00:35:31] Joe Daniel with like we see it, we see it as like, Oh my God, like you said, coach. We see him and we’re like, Oh, he’s going to get trapped. It’s like, Yeah, but he’s going to have four tackles for loss before that happens.

[00:35:41] Dave Dugan And that’s, you know, we knew going into the season we were like, Well, he might get trapped once or twice, but. And the times where I think this is where if you have those two smaller, quick guys like, you know, when we played the true I-teams that want to come and run downhill on you, that’s where we had to do. We had to be a little bit more creative with them, like we would have to maybe move them a little bit. We played a, you know, a heavier option team. Those two kids struggled because they weren’t the most disciplined kids at those times. So that’s where we got hurt. So, you know, we would have to kind of scheme a little bit more when you play that. But you know, that’s when we would bring in some of our bigger kids and say, OK, we need someone that’s going to slow this pace down in an I team. We need a bigger guy. And, you know, we have a couple of them, but you’re right there. You know, Coach Chamberlain, you said it, their offensive linemen and you know, they need a rest. So, you know, the I’ll bring them in if it’s in short yardage situations and I’ll take that quick defensive tackle, move him to a defensive end and just say, go get the quarterback, go do something, you know. But but you can be creative and it is. It’s just it’s a no on the offensive personnel that you’re going to play. And what can you live with with those two kids? And that’s every week. We knew going into it. You know what? They’re going to get trapped. We’re going to give up maybe a couple of 10 yard, you know, powers or whatnot, but those kids are going to make five or six plays in the backfield that’s going to really reckon offensive drive. And that’s usually what happens.

[00:37:12] Daniel Chamberlain I’m sure that there is a satisfaction of being a big school football coach and knowing that when I go to practice or a game or whatever, I have the dude that fits the description that’s in the textbook for every position. But there is a creative there’s some fun behind just figuring it out at a small school and like using what you have and like you’re talking about. Those big schools may not get that five tackles for loss. They may not get trapped because they have the guy that’s supposed to be there, but they’ve never tested. Hey, what if we just throw the freakin slot receiver in there and see what he can do? They’ve never done that, right? So the creativity of small school coaches just made it fun.

[00:37:48] Joe Daniel I did graduate in a graduating class of five hundred and sixteen and got thrown down at the nose, so sometimes they do.

[00:37:57] Daniel Chamberlain Yeah, that’s

[00:37:59] Joe Daniel a lot of times they do have to do an experiment now. I can promise you they had a big kid that was just waiting for me to completely fail, but I apparently didn’t. But I think that’s a that’s a really key point, because at the beginning, if you’re on JDFB Coaching Systems, you get into any of our systems. I’m going to start out by telling you, here’s the ideal person for each position. But the reality is you’re if you’re in JDFB Coaching Systems, you don’t have that. Like, I don’t know, although I did see we had somebody from Auburn, but most, yeah, humblebrag. But well, you know, I don’t like anybody that wears orange, but we’re going to take it. So, you know, either. Yeah, so the the thing about it is though, as we go through it, we talk about, you know, this is the ideal. But the reality is we’re never going to have 11 guys that are the ideal fit for every position. And I think it’s really important in doing this. This Defensive Line personnel episode is exactly what Coach Dugan said, which is you’ve got to look at the kids that are going to give you what they give you and give you the best possible outcome and then know where their weaknesses are going to be, just like you need to know the weaknesses of every defensive call that you make. Hey, we’re running cover 3-4 verticals. You know, we know, we know it’s an issue. You’ve got to look at that kid and go, This kid’s going to make some tackles for loss. He’s also going to make me tear my hair out because he’s just doing whatever, and I’m not even sure what he’s supposed to be doing. So how am I going to yell at him about it? Because he’s just going to be like, Well, coach, I saw I saw this. You go, try not to do that next time, but it’s OK. So as you pick your personnel know that they’re not going to be idle unless you’re in the SCC and then you go, OK, here’s where I can get the OK look. You get ideal guys. The Big 12 to I know he’s over there.

[00:39:54] Daniel Chamberlain Isaiah Thomas is tearing up the draft right now.

[00:39:57] Joe Daniel He’s back, but you’re going to get guys, you’re going to have guys in positions and you just need to know what their weaknesses and their limitations are and deal with it.

[00:40:06] Dave Dugan Yep. And that’s that’s the that’s the fun part about coaching at a small school. You know, being in the school every day with the kids like I, you get to know what are their weaknesses in the classroom so you know how they think. You know how they act. And it’s it’s, you know, with certain kids, Hey, I can’t throw a lot at him because it’s just it’s not, he’s not comprehending it. So why am I making him think? Let him go. Let him make out. Yes, like you. Said You’re going to live with things, but when he makes those four or five plays, he gets up and he looks at you and he’s like, You made me a superstar. And you know, you didn’t make him a superstar. That’s all him. But he’s bought into this idea that coach trusts me. And really, at the end of the day, if you have 11 guys on the field that trust you, that’s all you can really ask for as a coach.

[00:40:57] Daniel Chamberlain I agree. So we’re going to move on to even front ends now just because if we don’t, we can skip on completely here. So I know that this is where I was the most creative as a defensive coordinator, and that is. And Joel kind of went against what you taught me in with your coaching system. And that was, everybody does put your stuff right. Why isn’t it working? What did you do? What I said? No. Fix it. But I put instead of having my absolute straight studied at strong end and my fast guy week, I flipped that and it was because of the people I had my the guy I need to play, who was big bodied, had never played football. So I put him at weekend and just taught him to surf, which was the technique I chose to use and just told him I could just be there if they want to play Read, Power Reed or whatever, you know, Zone read, be the guy they have to read and don’t make it easy. And I let my senior that’s going to, you know, he was last year’s starting linebacker and I just moved him down the strong in personnel wise, it made sense I did not have another guy to go with either of those positions. And he was a guy that could he had a motor and he didn’t get tired. So it made sense for me to put him at strong end. I thought he handled titans very well. So he did what I thought needed to be done. So personnel wise, that’s what I was looking for my strong and need to be able to handle the tight end, whether it’s keeping him in line of scrimmage and just kind of shocked him for a second or playing off double teams, et cetera. And my weekend, I needed to be able to crash up for counter like go blow people up. And it worked out pretty well. I mean, we got gashed eventually because we just were really small, small school. So we didn’t have the guys that could just keep rolling in and we’re going to get tired.

[00:42:33] Joe Daniel But here’s where there’s it’s important here because I don’t think in anything else, we’ve talked about it. This is the case, but there’s a drastic difference, at least in coach. I don’t know exactly how you play your player ends in your four three, but in in the way that I have worked the 4-3 and the Miami 4-3, the strong end is playing just like the weekend. He’s in a tilted nine and he’s crashing and he’s doing all that stuff. And in a 4-2, I’m playing a guy who’s in a six I or six head up and he’s got to be like a defensive lineman. So in for me, two very different players here. If we’re talking Miami for three verses versus a 4-2-5 or four for where I’m playing a really seek out type player. So but I will say that I agree 110 percent. I don’t think you’re completely off because if I’ve got a kid who’s never played versus a kid who’s a pretty good player, I’m not looking at their body size. I’m looking at who’s a player. He goes to the strong side because if I’m doing it right and I’m making strength calls, I’m getting the strength to the play. Two thirds of the time, 70 percent of the time, if you’re only getting the strong side to the play, 50 percent of the time, you need to change your strength calls to just stop doing it right. The reason we call strength is to get the strong side of the defense to where the play is going, so I would agree with that call.

[00:43:57] Dave Dugan Yeah, I would, too. I we put I put the kid. I think that can handle the tight end the best to wherever the tight end is. So wherever that’s strong or weak, he goes there, then those our defensive ends are the ones that flip flop more really than anybody else, really. Our defensive ends and our Sam and I will linebackers will be the ones that will flip flop more. And and we had a kid that it’s a bigger kid at defensive end and he would go to the Tight end side. And then we had one of our running backs was a weak side defensive end and he would go away from the running. He was much better playing in a two point position than he was was this hand on the ground. He could see better from his two point position now. There were times he had to get that three point position, depending on what came at him if they jumped into a double tight set. But you know, our bigoted always went to the side of the tight end because he could handle the tight end. He was an offensive tackle. He’s pretty damn athletic, too, so he was quick. He could use his hands. Whereas, you know, the traditional weak side were for a lot of times for us, played to the field because he was much better in that stand up two point position. He could read, he could chase things down a little bit better. So that’s really field and boundary to me only mean something if they’re throwing the ball, you know, like with like, you know, we have some D-backs this year who are going to be younger when one’s probably going to be on the boundary until he learns the system where the other ones are going to play field, you know, with defensive ends, it all depends on, you know, who’s the faster kid who’s better to stand up on. That tight end isn’t there, and that’s the kid that should go away from the tight end. But if they put the. Out into the field and put your bigoted therein in, play your chances and play your odds that way. So that’s how we play it.

[00:45:40] Daniel Chamberlain And and what you’re saying is kind of tying some things, Joe said earlier to we. We got in, we started doing the odd we’d go from an even 90 percent of the game when we’d use a 3-4 look every once in a while. And having that smaller linebacker type kid my strong end, I could just stand him up. My 3-tech moves out to an end and then my one is just as only a half of a man slide. If that right, he just goes from a shade to head up. And then I mean, we generally just landed right back to that even front. But that made sense in my mind as I was trying to piece it altogether personnel wise. Now, weirdly enough, I didn’t plan that ahead of time. It just went when I needed that. It worked out really well. So that wasn’t it wasn’t something I had thought. I’m not that good of a coach, but it worked out

[00:46:25] Dave Dugan now, and it does took us when we would drop into our 3-4 look. If if, if I’m thinking our starting line, I want to drop into a 3-4. I want a nice, easy zone where guys don’t have the pattern read out of it. They can just drop in their zones and play that weak side defensive end easily slid to outside linebacker could play the hook curl flat position. And then that big defensive end kicked down and one of our tackles went in and the other one stood up as as a the other day. And you know that 3-4 look at it and they were very adapted to knowing where they were because we would identify that if we went into 3-4, our will linebacker went to the field and that weak defensive end always went away, just so we weren’t giving him tons of coverage if they had to come that way. So and that’s that’s more on you as a coach, just, you know, drilling that into the kids, if they know as soon as you call, you know, whatever you call your 3-4, we have different calls that we get into that they know exactly where to go so they can just drop into it.

[00:47:25] Daniel Chamberlain Is there a certain trait you’re looking for here is that the speed is at the strength? What are you looking for in your defensive end?

[00:47:31] Dave Dugan Well, our defensive end zone in our four, three or more force players and narrow safeties are secondary force players, and that’s just because we see so many multiple offenses. It’s just easier for us to week in and week out teach our defensive ends to be the force players and then everything is come. Once they cut back. But you know, for us, it’s it’s really just who do we have this year, who are our best athletes? And if we can, if we can find kids that fit traditional modes, we’ll put them there. But if not, you’re just looking for, you know, a lot of our Defensive Line have been converted linebackers for us because we’re looking like, you know what? You’re an athlete, you need to be on the field here. And if we don’t, if you’re not playing linebacker, you’re not really doing anything sitting on the bench. So we’re going to put you at defensive end and teach you that and that that has helped us a lot, too.

[00:48:23] Joe Daniel So yeah, for us, it’s if we’re talking for two and again, the way we play our guys in the four two they are the best true defensive linemen is the 3-tech. If you’ve got him, the second best guy is the strong end. And again, I’ll use a quicker nose if I’ve got a third best true defensive lineman who can be the nose. But a lot of times it’s not the case. And so it’s just going to be a quicker guy there. But usually, I mean, we’re talking like ideal world. It’s like a six foot 200, 210, 220 bound kid who can move pretty well is the strong and type of guy, the weak side and in the four two. And this is again, these are ideals. This is not the way it comes out every single year, but if I’m just talking from a kind of a regular year, personnel wise for us, I’m looking at all right. I got three safety positions. I got a strong safety, I got a two-week safety, I got a free safety. If I’m in a 4-3, I got two safety positions. I got my guys out there that are battling it out for the starting safety job and somebody is going to be the starters. One or two guys are going to be the, you know, the next man up and usually one of those guys. We’re just going to realize, like I said before, he’s not great in space. There’s something about lining him up five by five or seven by two or something where he just doesn’t cover that. I know we can run. I know he’s a good athlete. A lot of times are running backs. I know he’s got a good athlete. I know he’s, you know, he’s tough kid. I was going to go put him down, probably in a two point stance as a weak side defensive end. Or if I’m talking about a 4-3 we could play a nine and a five. I’m going to put both of them there. They’re both going to be fired safeties. So it’s like the guys who don’t get the safety job. They’re the guys who can play. And a lot of times the other guys who would just go. Sometimes we they are going to be true defensive linemen, but sometimes it’s like, all right, especially when we’re smaller, it’s like, Here’s the guy that I test. Combine numbers. He should be on the field, but he looks like a safety and he’s just not. I don’t know what it is. So he’s a defensive end. It’s that for three, Miami for three philosophy. Where they started when they started out at Miami with Jimmy Johnson, but basically just saying, look, we’re going to take, you know, at that time. We’re going to take everybody down corners is going to become safety. Safeties are going can come outside linebackers, outside linebackers become defensive and defensive ends are going to become tackles. Tackles are going to go play offensive line. And you know, that was that’s the philosophy that that I’ve stuck with is we don’t want the big offensive tackle playing unless he’s just a great athlete who could be like we talked about before, who could be a tight end. But most of the time, I don’t want the big offensive tackle playing a lot of defense in the rotation. Of course, we have 30 kids, 25 kids on a varsity roster. He’s in the rotation. If he’s starting on one side of the ball, he’s in the rotation on the other side, for sure. But I want speed on the field as much as possible.

[00:51:27] Daniel Chamberlain Well, gentlemen, that really kind of brings us through all the points we would talk about tonight. I think we covered every position in both fronts. Someone’s going to be like, Well, what about a five man front? I don’t know. Got you inside. We got you man calling outside linebacker. Wait for the linebacker person

[00:51:44] Joe Daniel to get the outside linebacker episode.

[00:51:46] Dave Dugan Wait for that. Wait for that old 50 to talk where you just invert your safeties into cover. Three Depending on on, on, on where things are going. So I know that a

[00:51:56] Joe Daniel and I carry, but I can’t even know what that is.

[00:51:59] Daniel Chamberlain Joe says that all these are, you know, there’s only there’s only three or four man fronts, realistically. And then I’d watched six people line up on the line for three straight weeks here so that six two was terrible. But yeah, that that kind of brings us to an end unless there’s anything you guys wanted to cover about any of these positions

[00:52:14] Dave Dugan and and think, Yeah, and I think the biggest thing is building confidence in your kids and, you know, letting them know that it’s OK to make a mistake. It’s OK to do things wrong as long as you’re working every day to get better at it. And that’s, you know, you only have a limited amount of time with these kids. And for the most part, you know, good high school foot high school football players play junior and senior, really good play sophomore, junior and senior. The phenomenal kids play as freshmen. So you’re really looking at two years with these kids. So how much in that system in two years can you really teach them to make them better? To me, it’s just let them play simple, let them play fast, give them the least amount of responsibility and and let them go. Enjoy, you know, playing with their teammates and having fun.

[00:52:59] Joe Daniel So I think that when I first started learning a lot sort of learning enough to be dangerous about football and started learning, you know, getting getting the videos and doing things like a lot of the coaches that listen, these podcasts that are maybe in your early part of your career, you start to learn how what you see in clinics and you start to learn what’s being taught in the in the videos and stuff, and you want to see that on the field. Don’t be too hung up in that. Don’t be too hung up on it being perfect and having the perfect personnel or having the perfect everything. You can send your film to me if you’re a JDFB Coaching Systems member and I’ll tell you why it’s not perfect, but I’ll also tell you, Look, who cares, you know you have the kid you got and, you know, don’t get hung up on it being perfect.

[00:53:44] Dave Dugan And as always, you always reach out to other coaches. You know, it’s it’s there are a lot that you can learn from meeting with you. And I love meet with coaches of all types of experience because a lot of the new guys, a lot of the spread guys that you see now you love to pick their brain because that’s all they know is spread. And those are things that you take as a seasoned veteran. You put in your head and you’re like, Oh, so that’s what they’re trying to do. So now I get a little bit more information out of them. But and you can build those guys egos, those bad guys, you can be like, I coach, I loved when you went quads and you did that and you see their eyes light up and you’re like, Oh, they’re going to tell you everything now. So but you know, it’s always good if the guys that you coach with in or in your league are our true football guys, they’ll be willing to meet with you and talk about anything to help out younger coaches. So don’t be afraid to reach out to ask people that that you know and trust in the business, too.

[00:54:39] Daniel Chamberlain I found the best thing to do was spread coaches to bring them on a podcast to talk about Tight end. There are Ron, and I know you’re listening. Make them tell you about all the good things about tight end. Well, sir, I think we’re ready to pay the bills and get out of here.

[00:54:56] Joe Daniel Yeah. So all the things we’ve talked about and of course, JDFB Coaching Systems we’ve talked 33 stack, 3-4, 4-3, 4-2-5. I’m on this. I don’t know how I’m going to make it happen. I just I don’t even think about different fronts as much anymore. These are all using the same terminology. We’re all using the same coverage words in blitz package. And it’s more about at this point, you know, can we match, can we take the guys that we have? And can we, you know, match the numbers and match the gaps and then use our reads and our keys and bit bit what you run no matter what you run. Because like coach Jurgen was saying, we see. This high school now, I think it used to be in coach, maybe this is the way for you early on. Everybody used to run the same thing because, you know, we went to the local clinic. We saw what the other guys in the years are doing. That’s not the way it is now. Like we get we get our information from everywhere. And so now we see everything. And so we can’t just go out there and be like, I’m a I’m a five two defense and do it. So, you know, we have all the defensive systems, but it’s more about philosophy. It’s more about core concepts, it’s more about understanding defense as a whole and the same thing on the offensive side, people are in no way, you know, why don’t you have a spread system? I do. Just move your tight end out to spread. It’s it’s all the same, so you can check it all out as part of JDFB Coaching Systems. Go to join.JoeDanielFootball.com. You get access for $1 join.JoeDanielFootball.com. If this your first time listening The Football Coaching Podcast, make sure you subscribe to. Don’t miss any future episodes. We have new episodes coming out every week and we are in all your barriers podcatchers and Spotify and Apple. While Apple Podcasts we are in what’s Amazon Music, so all over the place you can get The Football Coaching Podcast. You can also get it at JoeDanielFootball.com and if you listen for a while, please review. It’s a huge, huge help in getting the word out to other coaches.

[00:56:54] Daniel Chamberlain Social media. I am @CoachChamboOK on the Twitter machine. We are @theFBCP. That is the podcast tweeter.

[00:57:03] Joe Daniel Yes, it’s a that’s a good one too. And I am. I am @footballinfo

[00:57:10] Daniel Chamberlain Coach Dugan, do you have a Twitter or a Facebook or something people can can get in contact with you?

[00:57:14] Daniel Chamberlain Actually, I actually just opened an Instagram as as dean of students. I figured I should have some sort of an Instagram to get in t ouch. So it’s CoachDuagn53. You can find me on Instagram is the dean of students of Bishop Fenwick High School. So be more than willing to talk to anyone and talk with anyone that wants to talk a little football here in their group.

[00:57:33] Joe Daniel All right, anything else?

[00:57:35] Dave Dugan No. Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it. It’s always great to talk to you guys. It’s it’s just really fun talking football and talking different things and different schemes. And it’s it’s a lot of fun for me, so I appreciate you having me on here.

[00:57:48] Daniel Chamberlain Thanks for accepting our invite.

[00:57:50] Joe Daniel Appreciate you being on the podcast again. It’s always good to have somebody with some actual success, some actual coaching success, come on and so on.

[00:58:00] Daniel Chamberlain He really likes it. When you say things like, I’m a JoeDanielFootball member.

[00:58:04] Dave Dugan You know, I’ve been with him since 2011, so he was still, I think it was still like just a barely a working website when I joined. So and I found some drills on there and I’m like, Oh, this guy knows what he’s doing. So and it’s a state of a sense. There’s a lot of good things to find on that website. And the young coach, you know, Joe does it for high school kids and for high school coaches. It’s it’s. And I don’t mean this to, you know, blow up your own ego, Joe. It’s not about you. It’s about it’s about, well, I can blow up your ego, but it’s about it’s about helping coaches all around. And there’s so much good stuff on your website. You do a lot of good things for high school coaches and coaches for every level that if you can find something that you can learn on your website, then you’re probably not doing it the right way.

[00:58:49] Joe Daniel For anybody who’s a future guest of The Football Coaching Podcast, that’s how you get invited back.

[00:58:55] Dave Dugan That is, yes, the Altra.

[00:58:59] Joe Daniel I think we leave it there.

[00:59:00] Dave Dugan Excellent.

[00:59:01] Joe Daniel Thanks for listening to this episode of The Football Coaching Podcast. Remember Coach simple, play fast, win.